The Future of Search: SEO vs LLM Optimization with Sam Dunning

Jul 17

Episode 972: Show Notes

Is traditional SEO dead, or just evolving? If you’re wondering how the rise of large language models (LLMs) like ChatGPT and AI-powered search features is changing the rules, you’re not alone! That’s why I brought in Sam Dunning, founder of Breaking B2B and host of the Breaking B2B Podcast, to help us decode what’s happening and how you can adapt.

Sam breaks down why SEO isn’t always the right investment (yep, you heard that right), how to prioritize high-intent content, and why speed is your superpower as a small business. Want to demystify the new rules of search, break down how to build a future-proof SEO strategy, and reveal why speed and specificity might be your biggest competitive advantages? Stay tuned! Write Here

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Why SEO Still Matters (But Not for Everyone)

Sam doesn’t sugarcoat it: SEO isn’t the best bang for your buck for every business, especially if your product or service lives in an emerging or unfamiliar category. “If you're creating an offer that's not in a well-known category, then SEO is not the smartest move because people aren't actually searching for it,” he explains. In that case, you're better off doubling down on the channels that your ideal clients are already paying attention to, whether that’s LinkedIn, YouTube, email, or even Reddit.

That said, if your product is in a mature or existing category and you have the capacity to build out your SEO efforts intentionally, there’s still opportunity! “SEO at its peak is a demand collection channel,” Sam explains. It collects folks who are looking for your category, comparing vendors, and looking for solutions to the specific problems you solve. But don’t expect overnight results. SEO is a long game!

How to Stop Falling into the Traffic Trap

This was a big aha moment for me. Sam talked about the “traffic trap,” a common mistake where businesses focus on content that drives views but not results. “You look into your CRM or your sales funnel and there’s next to no pipeline generated, no qualified leads, no demos, no signups, and it’s like, well, what’s gone wrong?” he says.

Spoiler alert: it’s because most of that content is “top funnel, informational-based” and not actually meeting your buyers where they are when they’re ready to take action! Sam encourages you to pivot your strategy to focus on buyer-intent keywords and to avoid getting caught up in vanity metrics. “Focus on what that 5% of prospects in the market would search,” he says, referencing the 95-5 rule of marketing.

The “Money Keyword” Matrix

If you’re trying to figure out what your audience is actually searching for when they’re ready to buy, Sam shares his go-to process: the money keyword matrix. It’s as simple as four columns in a spreadsheet: how a prospect can describe your offer, the industries you serve best, competitors that come up in sales calls, and your dream client’s jobs-to-be-done or pain points.

Once you have those, start combining them into longer, more specific keyword phrases that match the way buyers search. “Trying to rank for ‘B2B LinkedIn agency’ would be quite tough,” Sam explains, “but if you went for ‘best LinkedIn agency for recruitment’ or ‘for fintech’ or ‘for construction’ – you can slowly chip away at these long-tail searches that are a bit easier to get found for.” While these might have low traffic, they have a lot more sales intent behind them!

What AI Search Really Means for You

Platforms like Google are shifting to AI-generated summaries and zero-click experiences, meaning users get their answers without ever clicking through to a site. “Websites are seeing it already,” Sam says. “A lot of traffic is declining. Impressions are going up on Google – but click-throughs are going down.”

So, where does that leave us? According to Sam, the future of search is all about brand recognition, or what Sam calls mindshare. “If your brand can consistently show when folks are looking for solutions, – [you gain] that mindshare.” Another powerful way to get your brand in front of searchers is through listicles. If you're not already showing up on Top 10 roundups in your category, create your own! These pages not only rank well on Google, they’re often pulled into AI overviews and LLM results. “If you can get your site mentioned with your category on a lot of third-party listings, it gives you a heck of a great boost right now in LLMs,” Sam says.

Harnessing Speed as Your Superpower

Here’s the good news for small business owners. You’ve got one major edge over enterprise companies: speed. “I’ve worked on SEO campaigns where it’s taken seven to eight months to get one page published,” Sam says. “Speed is your absolute advantage.” While big companies are stuck in red tape, you can publish faster and more often.

Whether you’re writing one blog post a week or two a month, consistency is key. Don’t get stuck waiting for the perfect piece of content. “It takes two to three months for a platform like Google to index a page,” Sam reminds us. “The more lines in the water you put in, the quicker you can see how it ranks, and if you need to improve it, fine. If not, keep going.”

Why Resonating with Your Dream Client is Still #1

At the end of the day, it doesn’t matter how high you rank, how often you post, or how fast you move if you don’t resonate with your ideal client. “Pumping articles through ChatGPT – and then publishing it on your blog is probably going to do more harm than good,” Sam warns. AI can help lay the groundwork, but it’s your perspective, your voice, and your stories that actually make the difference.

In an AI-saturated content landscape, having a real point of view sets you apart. Add context, complexity, and personality to everything you publish. No one else has your experience or your background, and that’s your edge. A good rule of thumb? Create the kind of content you’d actually want to consume!

Quote This

You want to make sure you're using [the best bang for your buck] when it comes to marketing dollars, and I'm one of those weird guys that says not every company should do SEO.

-Sam Dunning

Highlights

Why SEO Still Matters (But Not for Everyone). [0:05:52]

How to Stop Falling into the Traffic Trap. [0:09:40]

The “Money Keyword” Matrix. [0:13:05]

What AI Search Really Means for You. [0:16:30]

Harnessing Speed as Your Superpower. [0:27:05]

Why Resonating with Your Dream Client is Still #1. [0:30:00]

OUR Guest:

Sam Dunning

Website | Podcast | LinkedIn | YouTube

Sam Dunning is the founder of Breaking B2B, a specialized SEO agency helping B2B tech and service companies drive high-intent leads and predictable revenue through strategic search. With over a decade of experience in digital marketing, Sam is also the host of the Breaking B2B podcast, where he interviews industry leaders on practical strategies for growth.