How to Live Freely in a Goal-Obsessed World with Anne-Laure Le Cunff

PodcastMindset

May 5

Episode 949: Show Notes

If you’ve ever felt overwhelmed by traditional goal-setting, stuck chasing someone else’s version of success, or paralyzed by the fear of getting it wrong, this conversation will feel like a breath of fresh air. Joining me is Anne-Laure Le Cunff, an award-winning neuroscientist, entrepreneur, and the founder of Ness Labs, where her insights on lifelong learning, curiosity, and adaptability reach more than 100 000 curious minds every week.

Together, we dive into her new, incredible book, Tiny Experiments, a transformative guide to living a more experimental life, turning uncertainty into curiosity and forging a path of self-discovery one step at a time. Anne-Laure has beautifully captured what so many of us are feeling today about growth, achievement, and navigating a world that’s constantly changing. I’m so excited for you to read this one! Let’s dive in.

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Golden Handcuffs: From Working at Google to Reframing Her Goals

Anne-Laure started her career in an unexpected place — Google! After two internships, she got her first job there. She was so thankful for this huge opportunity, so she became the person who said yes to everything. She worked really long hours, thinking of little else but this definition of success she got from others. She was both burned out, and bored out! Because her future was so specifically mapped out for her, she had lost all excitement for what might happen next. So she began to reframe her goals.

Why Our Approach to Goal-Setting Makes No Sense in a Changing World

The way we treat goals as a society is very linear. We think you have to have a very clear vision of where you want to go, and then you need to work really hard to get there. But the world keeps on changing and so do we. Thinking you can set a big goal in the far future with a perfect plan and then just work really, really hard to get there is an illusion. We don’t see those liminal spaces as an amazing opportunity to get closer to what we want.

What It Might Look Like to Develop an Experimental Mindset

Anne-Laure speaks about life as a series of experiments. Instead of a clear goal, you start with a question. Would that be something I like? Would it help me grow? You’re no longer chasing an outcome. It’s just about curiosity. It’s really about having an honest look at the data and becoming the scientist of your own life. She also talks about ‘self anthropology’. What would you find if you studied your own life? Pay attention to what you’re saying to yourself and see what you can learn from it.

How an Experimental Mindset Might Actually Support the Sustainability Business

Whatever you do, there’s no guarantee you’re going to make money. So, experimenting is a way to actually embrace that and be more honest with yourself. If you’re paying attention to what works and what doesn’t, you’re more likely to be sustainable as an entrepreneur. Overnight success is a myth! Any entrepreneur that is successful today had to work for years before. They actually experimented for years, whether they called it that or not. But none of them copy-pasted a blueprint for success. Entrepreneurship is inherently messy, and by being more experimental, you can have more fun!

Learning in Public: What’s Different About Experimenting Together

You can experiment on your own. But when you learn together, you grow faster. It’s also more fun, and that’s something we should optimize for too. The format is the same, committing to an action for a specific duration, and withholding judgment while you do this until you’re done. In an organization, you can all run a tiny experiment together. In a household or a relationship, it’s the same. This format can apply to anything. As long as you’re trying a new thing over a certain period of time.

Designing Your First Tiny Experiment

Anne-Laure’s goal is to see everyone who reads her book designing their first tiny experiment. If they can reopen that window of experimentation in their lives, she feels like her job is done. The advice she offers is simple: nobody’s watching, and nobody cares that much! You can actually take way more risks and have way more fun than you think. If you’re curious to know more, get the book! Starting your first tiny experiment? Follow Anne-Laure, post about it, and tag me!

Quote This

“You are more likely to figure out a way to make money that works for your business if you keep on experimenting.”

—Anne-Laure Le Cunff

Highlights

Golden Handcuffs: From Working at Google to Reframing Her Goals [0:01:49]
Why Our Approach to Goal-Setting Makes No Sense in a Changing World [0:07:00]
What It Might Look Like to Approach Life with an Experimental Mindset [0:10:35]
How an Experimental Mindset Might Actually Support the Sustainability of Your Business [0:23:58]
Learning in Public: What’s Different About Experimenting Together [0:29:05]
Designing Your First Tiny Experiment [0:37:12]

OUR GUEST:

Anne-Laure Le Cunff

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Anne-Laure Le Cunff is an award-winning entrepreneur and neuroscientist studying curiosity-driven intelligence, which is the architecture behind why we seek, and how this system can be tuned or disrupted. She is the author of the book, Tiny Experiments: How to Live Freely in a Goal-Obsessed World, and founder of Ness Labs, a learning community for knowledge workers who want to achieve more without sacrificing their mental health. Her work has been featured in Rolling Stone, Forbes, The Financial Times, Wired, and more, and her research at King’s College London is changing the way we think about how we learn and grow across a lifetime.